i can't believe there is no-one else willing to put their work up for critique/appraisal/feedback

what do you all think of this image?

the original negative (6x6) was created on photographic paper when testing the shutter on an old Mamiya C33 camera

the greenish tone was added by computer

i really like this image and am considering hybrid means to create a larger version

is the image worth taking further?

what process would you use?

any comment/s???

assuming that people aren't willing to post work for critiques is a bit strong.

i tend not to critique work on line as there are too many variables which can inflence what my monitor records and i feel it is unfair to rely on that as a guide line for making a judgement about a print. Others have a different view point which is fine.

For instance, i have downloaded images to show my students, on my monitor they may look underexposed , etc. ; when i show them at school on an LCD monitor and blow up to about 4x3 foot in size they may look over exposed.

And no, i have not calibrated my monitor to the schools system as others use that system and i feel it is unfair .

with direct regard to you question about is the image worth taking further, sure, why not, it is interesting, as to which process; what makes your heart sing that should be your guide.

I like the image. I am not at all a critic...not qualified...no desire...What I am is someone will honestly say I like that or not... I would print that image VDB or PT/PD because as was mentioned earlier that would "make my heart sing..."..What do you think?

Miles

assuming that people aren't willing to post work for critiques is a bit strong.

i tend not to critique work on line as there are too many variables which can inflence what my monitor records and i feel it is unfair to rely on that as a guide line for making a judgement about a print. Others have a different view point which is fine.

For instance, i have downloaded images to show my students, on my monitor they may look underexposed , etc. ; when i show them at school on an LCD monitor and blow up to about 4x3 foot in size they may look over exposed.

And no, i have not calibrated my monitor to the schools system as others use that system and i feel it is unfair .

with direct regard to you question about is the image worth taking further, sure, why not, it is interesting, as to which process; what makes your heart sing that should be your guide.


g'day ann

more than an assumption, it's plainly obvious

JD set up this forum 16 days ago, i started the first thread that same day and now i have started the second thread 15 days later

and yes ann, there many variables in digital presentation, just as there are many variables in 'real' photography, not learning how to get the best out of digital is just a cop out or laziness

digital is here, it is the medium of our time, we took the effort to learn other aspects of this site why don't we learn how to do good presentation, after all photography is presentation

I like the image. I am not at all a critic...not qualified...no desire...What I am is someone will honestly say I like that or not... I would print that image VDB or PT/PD because as was mentioned earlier that would "make my heart sing..."..What do you think?

Miles

hi Mv
why do think you aren't a critic?

what qualification do you feel you lack?

are you not interested in visual communication?

don't have an opinion?

Ray,

This is a virtual duplicate of a post that you made on Apug some months ago. I wonder why that this keeps reappearing.

Apparently you have thoughts and opinions that are not shared by the vast majority. Does this then make this a failure of the vast majority or an individual matter?

It would seem to me that you have the opinion that visual imagery is global in appreciation and application and perhaps the difficulty is that visual imagery is highly subjective in it's application and appreciation. Visual imagery may very well speak more to the individual creating it then it will to a broader audience. It is for that reason that it becomes very difficult for others to critique someone's work beyond simple technical considerations. Even technical critique is highly subjective and probably, for that reason, invalid at best.

For instance if a strong Zone System practitioner were to look at the Brett Weston photo of Garrapata Beach, they would most likely find the empty deep blacks to be highly offensive to their sensibilities...yet taken beyond the simply technical, the image is strong and compelling for others...however this image is not global in it's appreciation by others by any means.

We need to become the cheering section in our own parade, it would appear.

ray,

i am clueless as to how you came up with cop out and laziness with my statement.

frankly , i should have gone with my first blush and not responded.,

my bad.

Ray,

This is a virtual duplicate of a post that you made on Apug some months ago. I wonder why that this keeps reappearing.

Apparently you have thoughts and opinions that are not shared by the vast majority. Does this then make this a failure of the vast majority or an individual matter?

It would seem to me that you have the opinion that visual imagery is global in appreciation and application and perhaps the difficulty is that visual imagery is highly subjective in it's application and appreciation. Visual imagery may very well speak more to the individual creating it then it will to a broader audience. It is for that reason that it becomes very difficult for others to critique someone's work beyond simple technical considerations. Even technical critique is highly subjective and probably, for that reason, invalid at best.

For instance if a strong Zone System practitioner were to look at the Brett Weston photo of Garrapata Beach, they would most likely find the empty deep blacks to be highly offensive to their sensibilities...yet taken beyond the simply technical, the image is strong and compelling for others...however this image is not global in it's appreciation by others by any means.

We need to become the cheering section in our own parade, it would appear.

thank you Donald

much of what you write is true, this is to some extent a rehash and duplication of previous threads and ideas i have posted

my intent then, as now, is to spark debate on subjects other than the technical

visual imagery may not be global, i don't know, i'd like to see this and other non-technical issues discussed

i may be in the minority, does that mean i shouldn't try to raise issues i feel are important?

should we only discuss 'safe' topics?

i also held out some hope that my postings might encourage others to express their opinions

Ray

ray,

i am clueless as to how you came up with cop out and laziness with my statement.

frankly , i should have gone with my first blush and not responded.,

my bad.

hi ann
i didn't find cop out and laziness in your statement, that's not what i wrote

my comment was in relation to the view often expressed on this site, and APUG, that digital presentation is lacking compared to 'real' printing

frankly, you were right to respond, i respect your opinion

Ray

Ray

Not trying to be a dick here
, but I posted three images in november 06 for a critique , Your response was that my post was confusing and would not comment . When I tried to give more details the thread went nowhere, and you certainely did not give a response to my reply to you.
More than an assumption, its plainly obvious . the emporer is wearing no clothes here.
At that time I swore that I would never post an image for critique on any web based forum and today I would be very cautious to do so.
My thread goes back 7months


g'day ann

more than an assumption, it's plainly obvious

JD set up this forum 16 days ago, i started the first thread that same day and now i have started the second thread 15 days later

and yes ann, there many variables in digital presentation, just as there are many variables in 'real' photography, not learning how to get the best out of digital is just a cop out or laziness

digital is here, it is the medium of our time, we took the effort to learn other aspects of this site why don't we learn how to do good presentation, after all photography is presentation

Ray

Not trying to be a dick here
, but I posted three images in november 06 for a critique , Your response was that my post was confusing and would not comment . When I tried to give more details the thread went nowhere, and you certainely did not give a response to my reply to you.
More than an assumption, its plainly obvious . the emporer is wearing no clothes here.
At that time I swore that I would never post an image for critique on any web based forum and today I would be very cautious to do so.
My thread goes back 7months

now hang on bob, you are somewhat miss representing want transpired on this previous post

i asked for clarification because your initial post was hard to understand and yes it was confusing

i also suggested that the attached images were too small to view, it wasn't that i wouldn't comment, i wanted to better understand your post

come on bob, are you so sensitive that i put you off posting ever again?

go back and reread our previous exchange

i do not consider myself the emporer, my images are posted for all to see and comment on, i accept, though i reserve the right to disagree with, all comments/crtiques/criticisms whatever

Ray
I have skin as thick as an elephants ass and I am not trying to pick an argument with you.

I am just pointing out that I did post images on this site in November asking for some advice about my images.You were one of the members responding to that thread, the thread did not go anywhere*probably due to my lack of communication* but I do find your comments on this thread kind of misdirected as I remember my initial thread and what happened there .
The attachments that I provided are from extremely large files that have been brought down to Hybrids attachment specs and I am not adapt enough to figure out how to do it differently to satisfy larger views.
Regarding being put off posting images, I actually am not to interested in doing this , as I find it impossible to really look at a screen and get any sense of what the prints look life in real life therefore the long post that I do agree, was hard to follow, but I felt the images did not convey my paticular problem I was having at the time with this series of work.
But since that time my head has cleared and decided to go with the all analogue route and do the triple toning on the fibre prints at mural size.
Putting that thread together and the resulting posts did not have an effect on my decision btw.
Maybe this showing of printed images on a digital web platform has dissapointed Ann in the past which prompted her reply .

now hang on bob, you are somewhat miss representing want transpired on this previous post

i asked for clarification because your initial post was hard to understand and yes it was confusing

i also suggested that the attached images were too small to view, it wasn't that i wouldn't comment, i wanted to better understand your post

come on bob, are you so sensitive that i put you off posting ever again?

go back and reread our previous exchange

i do not consider myself the emporer, my images are posted for all to see and comment on, i accept, though i reserve the right to disagree with, all comments/crtiques/criticisms whatever

hi Mv
why do think you aren't a critic?

what qualification do you feel you lack?

are you not interested in visual communication?

don't have an opinion?
My simple answer is, of course I have an opinion and I gave freely. Yes, I am interested in visual communication that why I am a subscriber to this forum. The tone of you question is a bit presumptive however, because the longer answer is a bit more personal. A quick summary starts with....In my opinion to give constructive or instructive criticism (which in my opinion is worthwhile) I should assure myself that I had something more substantial to offer than I like that or I don't like that. I should assure myself that I could in a clear deliberate way validate from my experience and training any critical opinion that I would offer further. I am relatively new to "fine art" photography,ie. I am not well versed in explaining why aesthetically I like something or not (whether I produced it or you produced it). I "know" from my "heart" when an image moves me to admiration, or to even comment for that matter, but in my way of thinking, that doesn't qualify me as a critic. I am a professional, even a specialist, in that profession and I can assure you that I am called upon to critique other like professionals regularly. I am quite comfortable and qualified in that role because of extensive training and experience in my fileld of expertise. So when I wrote concerning not being a critic it had all to do with criticizing something as elusive as the quality of another person's art. I am currently struggling with developing my own personal photographic sensibility and aesthetic and not nearly settled with what constitutes my own individual style and vision. Therefore , for me it would be rather sophistic to portray myself a critic in this forum. Since you asked...


Miles

g'day Mv
maybe putting into words how you respond to others' images may help you develop your own "photographic sensibility and aesthetic"

you don't need to portray yourself as a critic, just as a thinking, thoughtful observer

Ray

thank you Donald

much of what you write is true, this is to some extent a rehash and duplication of previous threads and ideas i have posted

my intent then, as now, is to spark debate on subjects other than the technical

visual imagery may not be global, i don't know, i'd like to see this and other non-technical issues discussed

i may be in the minority, does that mean i shouldn't try to raise issues i feel are important?

should we only discuss 'safe' topics?

i also held out some hope that my postings might encourage others to express their opinions

Ray

Ray, I appreciate your desire to discuss matters beyond the technical means by which an image is obtained. I agree with you that sometimes it seems that all that is discussed is exposure technique, printing technique, and equipment. That, to me, becomes a bit redundant...to put it mildly.

The difficulty that arises, it seems to me, is that when we move into the emotional content of an image we move into a highly subjective area. What moves me may not move you and vice versa. That is due, in large part, to our respective life's experiences to this point in our lives.

That leaves us then with the compositional considerations in the production of an image...(actually that appears to me to be technical in it's own way).

Perhaps that is what you are wanting to discuss...(I am not sure that I understand this to be true...but I hazard a guess on this.)

Compositional matters would involve considerations of the various forms of balance, the assorted aspects of form and how to best present them, even the use of symbolism in imagery (although some symbolism will be subjective.) These matters are not often discussed in photography forums and I wonder why that is...perhaps because most photographers approach their craft and art from a relatively ignorant position sofar as art education is concerned. Perhaps the compositional considerations are a relatively foreign language to many.

At any rate, if this is what you desire discussing, I will happily engage you in discussion on these matters.

Ray, if you really like the image then go for it and print it larger. I agree with Ann that it would look good as a Vandyke. I have a couple of things about the image that unsettle me a little though.

The first is the black shadow in the top left corner. I find the image a little more pleasing with that cropped out, and also with some of the space on the right removed as well. I have no problem with the square format, the I just like the cropped version a little better. The crack in the concrete following the line of the tyre and shadow works well for me too.

My two cents worth, for what it is worth. The crops I like are also attached.

CG

g'day Mv
maybe putting into words how you respond to others' images may help you develop your own "photographic sensibility and aesthetic"

you don't need to portray yourself as a critic, just as a thinking, thoughtful observer

Ray
first , and why I made my original statement, I don't feel the "need" to portray my self as anything. the only original point i was making was that ...I like the image , I think I would would do it in VDB or pd/pt, and qualify that with a dissclaimer...I am not an expert in this regard...From technical stand point I am pretty good with photo processes. I can produce 3 or 4 color technicaly correct dye transfer prints starting with any media you choose. That being said "you the artist would have to provide for me the artwork worthy of the process and consult through out the process to ensure that your aesthetic dersires are met. Only now am I focused on what my vision and style will develop into. Second, You are correct in proporting that verbal interaction with others about their art is helpful in this educational process. For example Donald's posted work and web site has definitely caught my attention. His ability to see and present form,light,texture and tonality concisely ,producing very stunning images to me is quite admirable. I have studied the postings repeatedly and commented. I would call this evaluative or analytical viewing but not critiquing because I offer him nothing other than my sincere admiration for his work. Nonetheless, It has helped me over the past few months as much or more from sheer inspiration as from anything else. I call this "The Comradship Factor" . In fact as I write this ( awaiting my wife :rolleyes: ) I am inspired to go out today for a nice photographic outting a little clearer about where I'm, going as an "artist".

Miles

p.s. sorry Donald for using you as an example without your permisssion...Oh and by the way I will be lighting up the 'hood' this p.m. with "THE LIghthouse" :)...the leaves image ...maybe pd/tp ????