Increasing the thickness/concentration of the gelatin sizing will add an increasingly yellow tint to the paper that I don't like.

Are you seeing this tint with formalin as well? I've used up to 200ml of 5% gelatin with 2% formalin (37% pet store solution) per 22x30 sheet and I can't tell the back from front, except for sheen of course.

Ian, IMHO, you are going this the hard way. Add the glut to the hot gelatin and size in one step. If the gelatin is turning yellow instantly it sounds like you are using waaaaay to much glut.

PM me for more details about glut.

Don

The 'hard way' is a required workflow : hand-made paper being produced and gel-coated elsewhere, but not hardened - the paper-maker does not want anything to do with aldehydes and the like.

Turns out my 'instant-yellow' situation was caused by tilting the pH waaaaaay to far. My bad math:eek:

Are you seeing this tint with formalin as well? I've used up to 200ml of 5% gelatin with 2% formalin (37% pet store solution) per 22x30 sheet and I can't tell the back from front, except for sheen of course.
Gelatin is not water-white, it's got a strong yellow cast -- just hold a beaker full of gelatin up to the light -- so use enough and it's bound to change papers with a very white base. I use 10ml of a 5% gelatin solution per 8-1/2x11 (Artistico) and this barely alters the paper color or matte finish. I would use 70ml to size a 22x30, so 200ml is a lot!

Well, if I fold the back of the paper over to cover half of the front of the sheet of FAEW that's been sized, I can't see a difference between the two under any light source- daylight or artificial. I wouldn't really consider gelatin a strong pigment agent, and 5% really isn't very much. A beaker of 5% size is a little cloudy, but without much color bias I can notice.

I did notice a strong yellow cast with glyoxal that seemed proportional to the amount of solution used, which is why I asked if you observed the same cast with formalin.

BTW, using extra sizing really helps with the gloss differential in carbon printing, so it's not superfluous. It also helps with building up relief on art papers.

Well, if I fold the back of the paper over to cover half of the front of the sheet of FAEW that's been sized, I can't see a difference between the two under any light source- daylight or artificial. I wouldn't really consider gelatin a strong pigment agent, and 5% really isn't very much. A beaker of 5% size is a little cloudy, but without much color bias I can notice.

I did notice a strong yellow cast with glyoxal that seemed proportional to the amount of solution used, which is why I asked if you observed the same cast with formalin.

BTW, using extra sizing really helps with the gloss differential in carbon printing, so it's not superfluous. It also helps with building up relief on art papers.
I use gelatin from BulkFoods.com, and if I hold a beaker of prepared gelatin up to the light it has a strong yellow cast compared to water. I use a 5% size precisely because it doesn't change my paper tint, but I know from experience that if I pour a heavy sizing coat, the paper will be distinctly yellow, and this is regardless of whether the sizing is hardened. This is a personal preference, so if you are happy don't be concerned:D

My experience is that a heavy coat of sizing is *not* required for relief, but this is another topic altogether. I take your point about gloss differential. I often deal with this by selecting a pigment based on the effect I want. Some pigments make dead flat glop while others create glossy shadows. It is also possible to add binders and flateners to glop to optimize for a particular effect.

Well, my concern was more for you, but I've moved past it. :D

Hi IanH,

I'm curious about the AKD. Did you try it as a surface applied size? How were your results?
I'd be interested in trying it because I like the idea of non-toxic sizing and haven't had much luck with PVA.

Any information would be great :)

Cheers

Benjamin

Hi IanH,

I'm curious about the AKD. Did you try it as a surface applied size? How were your results?
I'd be interested in trying it because I like the idea of non-toxic sizing and haven't had much luck with PVA.

Any information would be great :)

Cheers

Benjamin

I haven't been here in a while... a very long while :whistling:

Follow up on AKD: Made some paper from scratch (cotton linters, beating, pulping, mould + deckle) - AKD added at the wet end does wonders.
Treating manufactured paper yielded underwhelming results - the usual gelatin/hardener works much better.

This is a great thread, I do declare.

Well seeing everyone is using gelatin to size, there is other hardeners other than flormalin or any of those bad chemicals. I use gesso to seal my paper. first the hot water sizing then dry then paint diluted gesso with a foam brush and smooth it out with a small foam roller. I don't get any staining from my colors.