Kodak Ektar 100 - red color cast

[miklosphoto]

I would like to ask for some advise or ideas about how to get rid of the red color cast present in many scanned Kodak Ektar 35mm scans.
Here is my workflow:
- Kodak Ektar 100 35mm developed in a standard lab
- scanned by me on Nikon 5000 ED (tiff, 16bit, 2000 ppi)

Maybe half of my scans show red color cast due to natural color cast. i.e. red walls for example. Using the red hue sliders in LR or PS will modify the entire image, so for example what is supposed to be red will also lose it red color.
I tried also Viveza to do local red reduction, but it is very difficult to get correct skin tones.

So what I am asking if any of you have a good technique to solve this problem?
Thanks
Miklos

[Loris Medici]

Miklos, I don't understand; you say red "cast" but then continue with another issue of local correction. To my knowledge, the term cast is used in global context (even effect in all parts of the image) and corrected globally...???

If a red wall (or something like that) does reflect/shed red light over the skin of your subject (only/locally) then that's a lighting issue, not film/scanning problem. You'll have to adjust locally indeed - or may just opt to avoid tricky/mixed lighting conditions. (Or, use an appropriate color correction filter - if there's such a filter, which will cast its own color to other parts of the image, I mean the parts which aren't lit by the reflected red/reddish light...)

To rule out the possibility of me being completely misunderstanding you, maybe you can elaborate a little more (maybe with sample images?) letting us better understand your exact problem.

Regards,
Loris.

[Loris Medici]

P.S. I don't know the palette of Ektar 100 BTW, maybe it's a very saturated (especially red biased maybe?) film; you may try other films with more neutral palettes.

Back when I was shooting color negative (years ago) Fuji NPS-160 was wonderful with a very good / accurate / neutral color rendition. (I don't even know if they still produce that film though...)

[tgphoto]

Miklos, how are you scanning these? Using the Nikon software or something else? If using Lightroom to process the scan, I would try doing a manual white balance using the eyedropper.

I'm scanning Ektar 100 in 35mm and 120 formats on an Epson V750 without issue.

I use Silverfast which offers a Negafix profile for Ektar 100. On most scans, I don't have any color issues. On severely underexposed scans, I sometimes have to use the Color Compensation tool set to 20%-80% to reduce a slight magenta cast. This happens rarely, though.

[Loris Medici]

Ok, here it is. Apparently they have a new / equivalent product now...

BTW, the Ektar 100 page says "Ultra-vivid color". That hints to me that it's probably not an ideal film for skin tones - in my book... (BUT please note that I haven't used it before and I'm just interpreting what I'm reading in the product page!)

[miklosphoto]

To rule out the possibility of me being completely misunderstanding you, maybe you can elaborate a little more (maybe with sample images?) letting us better understand your exact problem.

Regards,
Loris.

Hi Loris,
yes, I meant by local, that I just want to fix the skin tones and not the whole image.
I know that I could fix the color cast by using filters, but my style of photography is not exactly suitable for that. There are many situations where I don't have the time really analyze the scene and decide that there is a red wall so I quickly have to pull out a compensating filter.
As for the characteristics of Ektar, it is a beautiful film under right conditions. Skin tones are warm, saturated to the right degree.

My whole question is more about post-processing. What works fine for digital raw images, does not work for scanned film. At least under those extreme situations. The problem I might be having is that I am trying to apply the same color correction rules which works perfectly on digital raw files. So I was wondering if some one knew a "scanned color negative" specific workflow in terms of color correction. And again, I am emphasizing, this is for images that have a color cast because of the conditions where they were taken.

[miklosphoto]

Miklos, how are you scanning these? Using the Nikon software or something else? If using Lightroom to process the scan, I would try doing a manual white balance using the eyedropper.

I'm scanning Ektar 100 in 35mm and 120 formats on an Epson V750 without issue.

I use Silverfast which offers a Negafix profile for Ektar 100. On most scans, I don't have any color issues. On severely underexposed scans, I sometimes have to use the Color Compensation tool set to 20%-80% to reduce a slight magenta cast. This happens rarely, though.

Yes I use the Nikon software. And that is not the issue (I know many people are criticizing it). When the lighting is neutral (daylight) the colors are perfect straight from the scanner. As I explained in my previous post, the problem is when there is a natural color cast because most of the light is reflected by say a red wall.
Using the eyedropper toll in LR makes the image even more warm and red.
I will post some examples later tonight.

[pellicle]

miklo

try using the hue control on the red and the yellow.

I did find your workflow description to be so minimal as to be difficult to know.

I use Nikonscan on an LS-4000 my flow is something like this:

http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2009/10...-tutorial.html

it could well be that the ektar responds a little differently to the other negatives (based on some conversations I've had, I have as yet not had a go with it, but as its my only other choice for 4x5 I reckon its only 3 sheets before this box of Fuji is finished)

[miklosphoto]

miklo

try using the hue control on the red and the yellow.

I did find your workflow description to be so minimal as to be difficult to know.

I use Nikonscan on an LS-4000 my flow is something like this:

http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2009/10...-tutorial.html

it could well be that the ektar responds a little differently to the other negatives (based on some conversations I've had, I have as yet not had a go with it, but as its my only other choice for 4x5 I reckon its only 3 sheets before this box of Fuji is finished)

That's what I am talking about! Can't wait to get home and try our your technique.
My workflow is more simple, but I am willing to do something new to see if it works better.
Thanks for the link to your workflow!
Miklos

[Worker 11811]

If you can use the "Curves" adjustment panel, that would be the best way to make the adjustment. You can do just about anything with the Curves panel: Color balance, brightness, contrast, white point and black point. It just takes time to get the hang of it.

If you can't wrap your brain around the Curves panel, the next best thing would be the "Levels" adjustment. It's easier and it's a lot more visual.

With the Curves and the Levels panels you can do just about anything that the other panels can do.

Whatever method you prefer to use, balancing skin tones should not be a difficult job to do with Photoshop. However, I agree with the others. If you can get the balance right when you scan the image you won't have to do so much fooling around with Photoshop.