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film + developer combo for Scanmate 5000 drum scanner recommendation
I'm coming back to film after disenchantment with the digital DSLR market...I have a Nikon D300 which I use for commercial work. It's a great camera but Nikon now are simply making fun of its customers with its crazy prices plus I'm just not getting any real art from it.....
Decision made....shoot film again!
I've just bought a used Sinar F2 with a 150mm Schneider to shoot 5 x 4 black n white people portraits for a project I've always wanted to undertake.....so film for the art of photography!
....back when i was at art school i spent a lot of time in the darkroom and T-Max 100 was my fave film.
I'd like to shoot T-Max 100 again....it was a film that was particularly flattering to people I felt....sharp yet smooth with skin.....I cant explain why technically....although I know it acts a bit like a red filter over the lens.....
....as you know I also have a Scanmate 5000 scanner and I've recently breathed life into it again....I'm posting questions on hoe to get it connected to newer Macs rather than the Powerbook G3 I have it connected to via SCSI at the moment with an ADB dongle key.....any thoughts on what to do about all that appreciated.....so this in effect is my first question.....
My workflow will thus be shoot, develop the negative and scan it....I wont be hand printing at the moment....
...so THE question is which developer + film combination to use. I'd like firm product recommendation as opposed to this type or that type of developer....I've been told PYRO by a few people but as I said I'd like a product to get hold of.....
....also, what kit do I need to develop 5 x 4 sheets with the minimum of fuss and maximum ease.....
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I asked similar questions on APUG and, although a few folks responded directly, I was politely told this forum was more appropriate for a discussion of b/w film and developing as they relate to scanning. Longstoryshort, people there suggested D-76 and T-Max 100 as a good combination. As I am new to developing my own film this combination is a reasonable place to start learning about developing b/w films for scanning.
cheers!
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I've used the bessler drum with a table top roller for 4x5 which was cheap and easy (ebay cost ~15.00) and now I use the HP Combi plan tank (ebay cost ~45.00), but it is really only good for stand or semi stand development.
I can't address dev/film combo for scanning as I've never had a problem with any that I've tried (although scanners tend to like thinner negs). I tend not to do much B&W and tend to print traditionally most of what I do.
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 Originally Posted by sperera  ...so THE question is which developer + film combination to use. I'd like firm product recommendation as opposed to this type or that type of developer....I've been told PYRO by a few people but as I said I'd like a product to get hold of.....
....also, what kit do I need to develop 5 x 4 sheets with the minimum of fuss and maximum ease..... I'm not exactly a clutz, but I'm certainly not the most athletically gifted person around. I never could get tray development to work well for me. A few scratches, but mostly uneven development. Agitation is important, especially that first minute. So I tried BTZS tubes. A big improvement, but still the odd uneveness in open skies. Then I found a good deal on a CPP-2, and bought a 3010 tank for it. All problems solved. This is the easiest, most trouble free development method I've used, and it gives consistently beautiful even development. I've run close to 1000 sheets through the 3010 tank without a single uneven sky.
As to film / developer, I really like TMY-2 in XTOL 1:3. I get about 1/3 stop faster than box speed, it's sharp, it's very small grained, it's got great reciprocity characteristics, and I like the short toe and the linear nature -- it seems to put the tones closer to where they "should be" relative to, say, Tri-X which I used for decades.
I've had some email discussions with some other LFers. The question was: with TMY-2 available, was there any reason to continue to use TMX in 5x4? Most of us made TMY-2 our only film; it really is that good.
Oh, yes. TMY-2 drum scans beautifully too. But so does TMX.
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Been running a lot of tests on this lately. We are processing in a Jobo. Contrary to previous results, we have gotten excellent results from TMax, Efke25 and Delta and good results from FP4 and TMY - all in Xtol, 1:1. We tried D-76 and weren't impressed, too much solvent action. We did Xtol in 1:1 so that there would be enough stock developer to do the 8x10's and that developer exhaustion wouldn't be a factor at all. We haven't tested 1:3 as yet....
The shot was in morning daylight, with everything still, and well-lit. N light... It appears that film is designed for daylight, N light, and that all films tested did reasonably well.
The Delta seemed to blow itself apart when overdeveloped - get very grainy. It may be more finicky, but I stress that we are in the middle of the tests and not at the end... these results are not definitive.
The next test is the sensitivity test, shooting at much softer light. Starting today...
Lenny
EigerStudios
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In my opinion developing in a Jobo with Xtol 1:1 will give good results, but not the best results, and certainly not if one plans to scan with a drum scanner.
For one thing, continuos agitation minimizes acutance which is obtained by micro-contrast from local developer exhaustion when you allow the negative to rest in the developer for relatively long periods of time. The fine line adjacency effects are too narrow to be capture on most scanners but scanners operating at effective resolution of more than 4000 spi can capture them.
Second, I have done several tests which show conclusively that pyro staining developers like PMK and Pyrocat-HD give about a 10-15% increase in real resolution, all else being equal.
I am personally quite surprised to see someone like Lenny, who is always interested in the very best results, use methods which give less than that. The only advantage of constant agitation with a developer like Xtol used 1:1 is that the results will be very even. For acutance and resolution I would advise other methods for someone trying to get the most of film.
Sandy King
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sorry to be so dumb but which film is TMY-2?? is it T-Max 400???
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It is the new version of TMAX-400, introduced in late 2007. The old version was TMY.
TMY-2 has finer grain and higher resolution than TMY.
Sandy King
Originally Posted by sperera sorry to be so dumb but which film is TMY-2?? is it T-Max 400???
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Originally Posted by sanking Second, I have done several tests which show conclusively that pyro staining developers like PMK and Pyrocat-HD give about a 10-15% increase in real resolution, all else being equal.
I am personally quite surprised to see someone like Lenny, who is always interested in the very best results, use methods which give less than that. The only advantage of constant agitation with a developer like Xtol used 1:1 is that the results will be very even. For acutance and resolution I would advise other methods for someone trying to get the most of film.
Sandy King Well, I am all ears. Truth is, something happened. Something that really threw me. I got a series of very bad results. Especially with film that you like. I am sure it was an error of mine, but it's beyond me... could have been developer exhaustion issues. At the moment I am getting some good results from the JOBO and as soon as I get that the way I want I will try and improve to whatever method you want to suggest. A 10-15% increase sounds like a very valuable way to go. I'll add the Jobo has been fun as I don't have to be in the dark the entire time... but you're right - I'll do anything to get the results... and the consistency.
Lenny
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Well, for starters even with the Jobo agitation you can get more resolution with the pyro staining developers than with D76 or Xtol. This is due primarily to the fact that the pyro staining developers tan the gelatin very early in development and this results in a more specific development that does not spread. The difference is not great, 10-15% as I note, and would not be of any consequence for most people. However, for people with drum scanners and printing very large I am sure that you will see some difference in resolution if you set up a proper test and drum scan at 8000 spi.
The second issue is agitation. You can develop film in open-ended PVC tubes which you then plop into a film drum, say an old Beseler or Unicolor film drum. I can develop 8-10 sheets of 4X5 film, or 5 sheets of 5X7 film, at at time with this type of development. Once the film is in the film drum you put the top on and the rest of the development can be done in room light until it is time for the stop bath. I then just plop the tubes into a large tray containing the stop bath, at which point you can turn the lights on and fix in room light.
The advantage of this system over Jobo is that it allows one to let the film rest for local exhaustion to enhance adjacency effects and micro-contrast. I generally agitate four or five times during development, at about equal period in between.
Sandy
Originally Posted by lenny Well, I am all ears. Truth is, something happened. Something that really threw me. I got a series of very bad results. Especially with film that you like. I am sure it was an error of mine, but it's beyond me... could have been developer exhaustion issues. At the moment I am getting some good results from the JOBO and as soon as I get that the way I want I will try and improve to whatever method you want to suggest. A 10-15% increase sounds like a very valuable way to go. I'll add the Jobo has been fun as I don't have to be in the dark the entire time... but you're right - I'll do anything to get the results... and the consistency.
Lenny
Last edited by sanking; 03-12-2009 at 03:53 PM.
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